Spout to NDI / Syphon to NDI

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This topic contains 22 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  leadedge 5 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #2773

    leadedge
    Keymaster

    We need some beta testers.

    “Spout to NDI” is a set of programs that allow Spout senders and receivers to share textures over a network using the NewTek NDI (“Network Device Interface”) protocol.

    Basically you can use “Spout to NDI.exe” to pick up a Spout source and transmit over a network using the Newtek NDI protocol. Then on another Windows machine on the network you can use “NDI to Spout.exe” to convert to a Spout sender that can be picked up by all Spout enabled applications on that machine.

    It seems pretty good according to tests so far.

    Download it from here.

    You will find a pdf in the zip file that explains how to use it.

    Nozomu Miura from Techlife, the creator of TCPSPout and TCPSyphon, has made short work of creating a Syphon equivalent and that is also ready for beta testing.

    Download it from here.

    This is essentially the same thing where you can use “Syphon2NDIserver” to transmit a Syphon source over the network and pick it up on another OSX machine using “Syphon2NDIclient”. Then, because the NDI protocol is always the same, you can also mix and match between Windows and OSX machines on the same network.

    So if you have the application for this sort of thing, please give it a go and report back with your findings.

    #2790

    dirtyjohn
    Participant

    Trying to do SpoutNDIsender to SpoutNDIreceiver on the same machine crashes the receiver with no special errors.

    Does not happen with the NDI scan converter to NDI video monitor.

    SpoutNDIreceiver doesn’t like receiving from NDI scan converter (with or without high frame-rate) same machine (using 1440p desktop as source), crashes immediately.

    Arena 5.04 using built in Spout output under the output menu, to “Spout to NDI”, then SpoutNDIreceiver, crashes receiver on same machine also (using example composition).

    Win10x64, GTX780 (driver v364.72), i7 4930k, 32GB RAM

    • This reply was modified 11 months, 2 weeks ago by  dirtyjohn.
    • This reply was modified 11 months, 2 weeks ago by  dirtyjohn.
    #2793

    leadedge
    Keymaster

    OK thanks a lot for this, and for the system specs.

    It would seem from your report that the problem is with “SpoutNDIreceiver”. I will have a look at this to see what might be happening.

    But SpoutNDIsender and SpoutNDIreceiver are really just for convenience and could be left out. The main interest is with “Spout to NDI” and “NDI to Spout”.

    So the question is whether Arena > Spout output > “Spout to NDI” > Video Monitor is OK.

    Also Arena > Spout output > “Spout to NDI” > “NDI to Spout” > Spout demo receiver.

    And NDI scan converter > “NDI to Spout” > Spout demo receiver (or Arena).

    #2795

    leadedge
    Keymaster

    I looked through the code for SpoutNDIreceiver and can’t find anything obvious. I can’t make it fail with SpoutNDIsender or the NDI test pattern of Scan converter – desktop. I have tested with Windows 7 and Windows 8.1, but not Windows 10. I am wondering if it is simply low on memory, so I have put in some MessageBox alerts.

    I have rebuilt all the applications and packaged as an installer. This will also detect whether the required VS2013 runtime is installed and give the option to install it if not there.

    There are also some new FreeframeGL plugins “NDIsender” and “NDIreceiver”. You can use these directly in Resolume rather than via the “Spout to NDI” and “NDI to Spout” interface programs.

    This is still a beta test, so any observations will help to finalize it.

    Here is the new download link. Read the documentation first for details of the installation.

    – – – –

    #2796

    leadedge
    Keymaster

    Update to Syphon2NDI by Nozomu Miura of Techlife.

    Download it here.

    Also his screen capture application “ScreenCaptureSyphon” now supports NDI.

    http://techlife.sg/ScreenCaptureSyphon/index.html

    – – –

    #2801

    leadedge
    Keymaster

    Here is the latest installer for “Spout to NDI” – version 1.004 – updated using the latest Newtek NDI SDK.

    – – – –

    #2803

    mrteatime
    Participant

    Been messing around with this for the last hour or so it is definitely more convenient than the tcpspout alternative.

    And in my fringe case (game -> ndi screen recorder -> ndi to spout -> spout cam -> obs) the latency is low enough to actually play a game on the preview screen, ASSUMING I use the full desktop capture which is where my one gripe lies.

    The screen cap software provided by newtek has a tiny delay, its low enough that the only way I was able to notice is when when i had a gut feeling it was slightly off so ran an audio visual sync test and listed to the audio on the source machine while watching the video on the destination machine, its in the region is 100-200ms so like I said pretty much unnoticeable, but thats when you use desktop capture (the actual ndi to spout connections delay is so low that i couldnt for the life of me see a difference when running the spout test) however if you run the specific application capture the delay goes to shit, micro stuttering occurs etc.

    This isnt something you can fix as its a problem with newteks application not yours so unless you can code a directx hook that outputs to ndi im SOL there, but apart from that great software.

    Oh and in regards to the spoutNDIreciever can confirm its a windows 10 based crash, but the ndi to spout works so its just the demo program thats crashing.

    Edit: Actually now that I think about it one suggestion id have involves a modification to the ndi to spout application.

    Namely the ability to create a uniform Spout sender name instead of adopting the name of the NDI source so as to allow hot swapping of the ndi source by simply choosing a different one, and not break the spoutcam (due to the nature of how directshow works the spoutcam breaks if you try to change its source while its running, you have to completely shut down the application using it and reopen it reinitialize spoutcam with the new source)

    Who should I forward that suggestion to?

    • This reply was modified 11 months, 1 week ago by  mrteatime.
    • This reply was modified 11 months, 1 week ago by  mrteatime.
    #2806

    leadedge
    Keymaster

    One thing you have shown is that “Spout to NDI” works for you and that’s something.

    I might be able to reproduce the Windows 10 crash of the SpoutNDIreceiver demo to find out why this happens. I have only tested to Windows 8. Meanwhile the demo programs are not important in the function of the whole thing.

    The screen capture delay is maybe something that Newtek might look at. I assume that you find that the capture works full screen but not when the game is running in Windowed mode. This is what I find for OpenGL applications. I don’t know the reason at this stage.

    I can’t really help with Screen capture until I have time to look at it again. I think that DirectX hooking is the way to do it, but this is not for the faint of heart. Developers are interested in the Windows 8 method but also have no time I suspect.

    The next version of SpoutCam will not break when a sender is closed, but rather pick up the next one that starts. The new Spout 2.005 installer is on the tip of being ready for release, next week maybe. Keep an eye on this forum. I will think about the common sender name idea. You have already forwarded the suggestion to the right place.

    #2808

    mrteatime
    Participant

    Actually quite the opposite, it can capture the game while windowed but not in fullscreen, but thats to be expected (fullscreen directx is a D3D object and completely takes over the display, hence why when you alt tab out of a fullscreen game it completely makes it dissapear) to capture fullscreen directx a hook is pretty much necessary.

    In the meantime though im having a look at their newtek connect software, from what i can read in the description it should accept a directshow filter as input due to it taking webcam feeds as input.

    If so I can feed the dshow filter from ffsplit or dxtory any program with a d3dhook and a dshow output really.

    And good to hear about spout 2.005 ill definitely be keeping my eye on it.

    #2809

    leadedge
    Keymaster

    When you have this worked through, I am sure that people would be interested if you can share your solution here.

    #2810

    leadedge
    Keymaster

    New update to Syphon2NDI by Nozomu Miura of Techlife.

    Download it here.

    Requirement was OSX10.10+. But now OSX10.8+ is supported.

    – – –

    #2871

    leadedge
    Keymaster

    Update to Syphon2NDI

    Syphon2NDI has been updated with the latest NewTek NDI SDK which provides improved compression to achieve about 20% better results (at identical image quality) with a corresponding 20% CPU usage improvement.

    Download here.

    – – –

    #2874

    hmb3141
    Participant

    Testing with 1.007, Windows 10, sending from AMD W9100, receiving to GTX 1080, texture size 8000×1000

    Send/Receive works perfectly, hardly any latency. Although the image compression is noticeable. I haven’t got access to the NDI SDK so perhaps it’s not possible, but a similar option as TCP spout where the compression quality can be adjusted would be a nice feature.

    #2875

    leadedge
    Keymaster

    This is really interesting to know that there is hardly any latency with 8000×1000. This is really pushing things and it does validate the concept that Newtek are suggesting.

    Yes the compression is noticeable, although not too bad. I had trouble early on with colour changes, but that seems to be fixed now.

    Maybe if you are interested, just register on the Newtek website for download of the SDK. Anybody can register on the forum as far as I can see. There is a developer section. They might be interested in your suggestion of compression quality/performance.

    #2876

    hmb3141
    Participant

    It really is quite impressive. I’ve registered for a download of the SDK, so will follow through with it.

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